#and also the relationship is healthy in canon

[interestingturnofthetables]

Don’t get me wrong, I do also enjoy watching them duke it out in the cage. I think they have a really interesting relationship between them that I love exploring because it’s toxic. I think your version of ‘ship them’ here is pretty much my thoughts on most things too. I just didn’t want to rehash points made above in the tags.

When I say they don’t work together and it makes me sad to see I was more so talking about a specific interpretation (which I didn’t make clear that is on me lol) of post-canon; any variation of Bill shows up at the shack after theraprism and within a week him and ford are somehow in a weirdly stable romantic relationship. I don’t like seeing them in a ‘good’ relationship because it feels disingenuous given their entire history and Ford especially doesn’t deserve that after everything.

As for the au’s, I think there are certain aspects of both their characters that do work well together if they were accentuated. I find it just as interesting to explore that ‘what if’ of any version of such as I do to explore their canon situation. It’s sort of just a chance to mix and match personality traits or motives in a character and see how it turns out. I often very much feel like a mad scientist running a simulation over and over to figure out the perfect scenario and circumstances for my evil plans to unfold.

Even in au situations I tend to lean more towards the ‘everything is terrible! But hey, these guys seem happy!’ premises. (What if Ford was actually just pretty chill with the end of the world? There’s also so much more potential for family angst if Stan is trying to fight this demon but also his brother). I can also appreciate a ‘bill has other motives’ au or the Mr bill pines au where everything is just pretty ideal for everyone involved, because it’s very much just “wow, look what it could’ve been like. How did [canon] happen!?” Which only serves to make the distinction that “yeah. Canon billford is SO toxic” all the clearer.

This isn’t to say I don’t enjoy au’s without romantic/healthy billford. I just think in a different set of circumstances there might be a chance to explore it without it clearly (to the audience) being a manipulation tactic or anything else that is obviously not a healthy relationship. And even without changing every part of their characters, their dynamic is so interesting to explore all the different possible situations, and some of those situations can give them a shot at actually being a good (albeit odd) couple which to me is such a funny concept.

Hopefully that made sense. Tldr: canon billford is toxic but interesting as heck to look at. I just don’t want to see that magically twisted into a ‘healthy’ romantic relationship. And au’s are just like character trait jigsaw puzzles that can give you so many more options of positive or negative relationships under new and interesting circumstances.

The fandom interpretation of billford vs how I interpret it personally has such stark contrast that I kind of wonder if we all read the same book/watched the same show sometimes.

I don’t mean that in a bad way (sorry if I come across as condescending). I find it really interesting actually. I think fandom, in general, has a tendency to ignore darker themes present in a work because they’re difficult to talk about.

I feel a little odd seeing so much fluff and domesticity type stuff surrounding them when their relationship was so terrible. There’s nothing wrong with fluff obviously (I like it sometimes!), it’s just hard for me to fully enjoy … I can’t help but view any moments of Bill treating Ford nicely as underhanded. I am also probably projecting though - part of why I like Billford and interpret it the way I do is because I find it (particularly the darker parts) relatable to me.

I’m curious to hear other peoples opinions on this matter. Sorry for the random rant - don’t worry, I’m working on something! This has just been on my mind lately.

[arcaneconfessions]

I feel like everyone bitching about shipping and shipping discourse need to understand that Timebomb, Caitvi, and Jayvik, are all ships that predates Arcane as a show by years.

And the people who ship them might not even be shipping the versions of the character's that are in Arcane.

Caitvi has been a ship essentially since they debuted in LoL, Timebomb at least since Ekko got the game lines that outright state that he had a crush on Jinx before she went full mad bomber, and Jayvik at least since it was revealed in their lore to have been academic rivals turned partners turned bitter enemies.

None of the ships that started in Arcane are going to be as popular or have as much fanart/fic about them.

Like the oldest Caitvi fic I can find on AO3 is from 2014, and it's not even tagged Caitvi it's only tagged as their pre-arcane shipname of Piltover's Finest.

Oldest Jayvik fic I can see is from 2015, oldest Timebomb fic is 2016.

This doesn't even get into the fics that inevitably got deleted over the years, or were lost in the ff.net purge, or are just on fic sites I don't use like Wattpad.

Like I keep seeing people (who I can only assume are fans of just Arcane) who are acting confused by people shipping these ships because they feel the ship wasn't presented well, or convincing to them personally in Arcane.

As if all three of these ships don't predates Arcane by years, and Caitvi in particular is at least a decade old, and the other two aren't far behind.

I feel like a number of people who were either introduced to these characters via Arcane or have only ever interacted with the Arcane part of the expanded canon, are failing to understand that a number of people who ship Jayvik, Caitvi, and Timebomb were shipping those ships before Arcane was even announced.

Or that might not even be shipping the versions of the character's that are in Arcane, but in one of the many skin line AUs.

I mean my favorite iteration of Caitvi are the <3 skin AU, where they're a pair of highschoolers who are starcrossed due to being in different cliques, with Caitlyn being a preppy good girl, while Vi is a trouble making skater girl.

Because it's a cute au where neither are cops. I mean look at these two:

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/2/24/Vi_HeartacheSkin.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20230208202510

It's great.

And maybe it's lame of me to pick the AU with the lowest stakes, but acab, and this is like one of three skin line AUs where they aren't cops, and also they canonically write love letters to each other and go on secret picnics in this AU.

While I honestly don't think Arcane Vi is in any kind of headspace to try to be starting a romantic relationship for basically the entire show. And Caitlyn isn't really either in season 2.

But that's one of the good things about Riot.

They've made a number of AUs where these two characters aren't the the mentally unstable and grieving women they are in Arcane. Where they can be in a healthy and happy relationship with no relationship based strife.

Arcane fans need to expand their horizons, and stop assuming the worst about each other based on who they ship is basically what I'm saying.

Also people complaining about the multiverse being brought into Arcane in season 2, should come to terms with the fact that the idea of multiverse and alternate timelines have also explored in LoL expanded canon before Arcane.

That's basically the logic that the skin line AUs exist under.

.

[youhideastar]

Fangs of Fortune: A Primer

I keep hoping someone funnier or better with images than me will write a primer for this show, but I haven’t seen it yet, so it’s looking like I’m going to have to be the propaganda I want to see in the world.

Fangs of Fortune is a 34.5-episode drama that takes place in Ancient Fantasy China, split between the human world and the Wilderness (home of the yao/demons). You can watch it on iQiyi or YouTube. There will be some spoilers below, mostly for early episodes; photos here are from official production stills/promos. As far as I can tell, Fangs of Fortune is a (successful) attempt to get a m/m romantic pairing past the censors by giving the dudes a(n also-queer) female love interest as well, which is neat. The show cares way more about the characters than about the plot, so I’m going to follow suit, starting with…

Zhao Yuanzhou, a.k.a. Zhu Yan

30,000-year-old suicidal Great Demon with suave DILF energy, sky-high self-confidence, and rock-bottom self-worth. 8 years before the show opens, he was possessed by malicious energy and killed a ton of people, including the only living relatives (father and brother) of this guy:

Zhuo Yichen

24-year-old swordsman and demon hunter (head of the Demon Hunting Bureau, in fact), who wears the most beautiful costumes of all time, has sworn to avenge his family, and happens to be in possession of the only weapon that can kill the aforementioned Great Demon Zhao Yuanzhou—if only he knew how to use it.

On the dynamic between Zhao Yuanzhou and Zhuo Yichen, which is the driving force of this show, I can’t do better than this post and this post – please go read them, you will not regret it. In the meantime, please enjoy some homoerotic violent hand-holding.

Zhao Yuanzhou shows up at the Demon Hunting Bureau very sexily and offers to teach Zhuo Yichen to use said weapon, if Zhuo Yichen will (a) swear to kill him with it once they’re done, and (b) in the meantime, let Zhao Yuanzhou join the demon hunting crew. Specifically, he demands to be paired up with this lady:

Wen Xiao

Scholar, demon hunter, Zhuo Yichen’s sort-of foster sister, and technically the Baize Goddess, guardian of the Wilderness… but when her predecessor as Baize Goddess died, she couldn’t complete the transfer of her powers to Wen Xiao, leaving Wen Xiao unable to do the job, and sickly to boot. Wen Xiao compensates by being smarter, more socially adept, and more mentally healthy than everyone else in this cast… although I will grant that’s a low bar to clear.

While recruiting a crew to go after a pesky water demon, Wen Xiao runs into…

Pei Sijing

Stoic archer who recently retired from demon-hunting after she had to kill her own brother; target of Wen Xiao’s very persistent affections.

Here they are being cute together:

Congratulations, you have now met the polycule! There are also two comic-relief teenagers (with obligatory difficult backstories) and two villains, one of whom is boring and will be ignored, and one of whom is Zhao Yuanzhou’s human-hating mall goth demon ex-boyfriend Li Lun, as seen below:

There is not really an overarching plot: in general, the plot is driven by the desire to get Wen Xiao fully powered-up as the Baize Goddess so that she can fix stuff that has gone wrong in the Wilderness, but after a certain point, most plot arcs are driven by problems caused in the previous plot arc. The writers are way more invested in putting the characters in Situations that will crunch them up against each other in interesting ways than in having a coherent plot or worldbuilding. Fortunately, they are very good at writing these characters reacting to each other in Situations, so it works out.

Why should you watch this show? First, it is delightfully gay and there is great fic for it, which you will get more out of if you’re familiar with canon (but don’t let that stop you from diving in now…). Second, the writers are really good at building compelling relationships between characters, romantic and otherwise, and in particular, they have a gift for writing two-character dialogue scenes and cute banter. Third, damn, this is maybe the most visually beautiful show I’ve ever seen in my life. The costumes, in particular, are unbelievable.

Are there downsides? Yeah, candidly, you are going to spend a chunk of the first third of the show sitting through long flashbacks that I call The Ponderous Tragic Backstories of the Het Guest Stars when all you want to do is get back to the main characters. Don’t worry, the whole show is not like this. It happens four times (three toward the beginning and once toward the end). And at least even the Ponderous Tragic Backstories of the Het Guest Stars are still very pretty to look at.

Anyway – check it out! Ask me if you have questions! Correct me if I goofed on anything! See you in Queer Poly Ancient Fantasy China!

(Edited to correct the number of episodes, thank you, @kandadze!)

[bumblebeehug]

Fairy Tail fans are actually the animanga world’s strongest soldiers. We never know if the next chapter will be the best or the worst thing we’ve ever read. Women are strong but people hate them for being annoying. Ships become canon and have healthy relationships but THE main one isn’t even close to canon. No, let me rephrase: they’re canon but also not canon. Schrödinger style.

Oh and this is the only anime I know of that’s only ever gotten worse animation as time went on. The stuff we have now is so terrible that I’m recommending the hyq manga to people. I am constantly at conflict with myself: do I hate it or love it?

[classygreydove]

Read a comment bashing lwj...

This is a very long rant about why I love lan wangji's character and why I think his behavior towards Wei Wuxian pre-sunshot campaign make sense. Some events I talk about might be out of order, because I'm rambling. Spoilers for scenes from Audio drama, cdrama, and the other mdzs canons.

So I accidentally read a comment bashing lwj and it made me so mad. Mostly because I found it incredibly inaccurate in interpreting his actions and his relationship with WWX. I can understand not liking LWJ just because his personality isn't one everyone would click with, but hating on him for inaccurate assessment of his character?! It feels like an injustice. So I'm going to share why his character is so fascinating to me, and why his actions make sense.

LWJ is one of my favorite characters for a reason, and there's a reason WWX likes this guy. Was LWJ's behavior as a teen towards wwx dumb? Yes. He was a teenager, lashing out because he had all these feelings and he was scared of being like his parents and scared of the idea that the things he'd been taught about the world was wrong, and he was angry because he couldn't control anything or make it align with that worldview, and he was so full of attraction and fascination and desire that frightened him, because the world and his clan had taught him it was wrong. And it was all happening because of this beautiful, bright boy, who wouldn't obey any of the rules LWJ had been taught made someone "good", but who was somehow so good anyway (which he learns from the Waterborne Abyss incident, when WWX rescues Su She). LWJ has been thrown into a hormonal, existential chaos.

He's never learned to communicate because he's never had a single friend in his life, and he hadn't had anyone to teach him all the ways love could be good, could be healthy, could be a blessing. Only that it was a sin, and that he was bad to have those feelings. He hadn't had anyone to teach him how to manage his emotions in a healthy way, or how to trust his own sense of right and wrong even over what others told him.

And here's this boy, who laughs at, disregards, disrespects LWJ's home and the wisdom he's been taught to look up to all his life. His clan's history and methods. And he's so beautiful, but it feels like this boy is laughing at him. And this boy is so charming, and every time he flirts or is friendly he must be making fun of LWJ because no one has ever teased him like this, or treated him in such a friendly way. Of course WWX doesn't actually want to be friends, or isn't really flirting. He has so many other friends, why would he want to be friends with LWJ? He just wants to get out of punishment, or be entertained. And he likes girls, so of course his flirting with LWJ is only to make fun.

And LWJ feels so vulnerable when WWX flirts, because he wants WWX to look at him and call him handsome, and maybe he's scared WWX sees that. So of course he's going to ignore him, avoid him. Of course he's going to respond with "Shameless!" and "Boring!" He thinks WWX is making fun of him. He thinks WWX is going to hurt him, if LWJ softens. And these emotions are so strong. What if they grow out of control, to the point his love becomes something that poisons, stifles, or hurts? That's a recipe for textbook anxious avoidant attachment style right there (I would know lol i am also this way).

And No wonder he reacted so strongly to the spring book prank. I think bro felt terrified/furious WWX had perceived, in some way, his own desires. And thought WWX was making fun of him. To me, this hits a lot more strongly in the cdrama, especially as the spring book cdrama!WWX used was of the cut-sleeve variety.

And when WWX knocks him over the wall, so sure LWJ will reveal that he's just like the rest of GusuLan, who just want to have rules to feel morally superior over others, enforcing them selectively but not applying them if it suits them (see: LQR) LWJ is determined to prove him wrong, and takes punishment along WWX for being outside the walls after curfew. And here's where WWX's (more negative) opinion of LWJ's character begins to change. He sees that LWJ is genuine in his desire to do good, to be morally righteous. And that makes LWJ stand out against so much of the rest of the cultivation world.

But LWJ still thinks WWX is teasing him maliciously, even when WWX announces that his opinion of LWJ has changed and he wants to be friends. LWJ is still heavily on guard, and again, WWX is approaching him when LWJ feels very vulnerable, given he's undressed in the cold spring, and WWX is also getting undressed in the cold spring. And then WWX says he'll introduce LWJ to girls. Again: he's vulnerable, feeling wrong, feeling made fun of, so he pulls away.

I don't think LWJ really starts to let down his guard until after WWX brings him the rabbits as a gift. Because WWX brought them, and even if he felt vulnerable and teased during that exchange, they were still a gift, proof that WWX had thought of him outside of just their exchanges during WWX's punishment. It is a much kinder feeling of being perceived than the spring book was.

And then WWX is kicked out of lectures, and LWJ doesn't see him again until indoctrination, but even though he was hoping-not-hoping with WWX gone the feelings would fade, instead he writes a love song because he can't get WWX out of his head. All his pulling away and guarding himself seems to be for naught. In the audio drama (the lotus seed pod extra) he even goes to a lotus pond to pick the seed pods with the stems attached because he missed WWX and was thinking about the things he'd shared about his home. He wanted to know about the things WWX liked, the things WWX experienced in his home, even if he wasn't brave enough to go to Lotus Pier directly. [EDIT: It was pointed out that this extra appeared first in the novel.]

And then there's the Discussion Conference, where WWX pulls off LWJ's forehead ribbon. I imagine this event caused LWJ to feel humiliated, ashamed, angry, (and even more horrifyingly to LWJ, pleased on some level that it was WWX) and exposed in front of the entire cultivation society. It might not "seem like a big deal" to a lot of fans because to us it's just a strip of fabric no matter how symbolic, but in this case it is very important that we imagine the gravity of this to understand where LWJ is coming from. For better understanding I would compare it to a lot of modern spiritual practices that use clothing in similar symbolic ways, and we would never want to disrespect someone by disrespecting that clothing, even if it is not a practice we personally follow. And WWX pulling the ribbon off in front of pretty much everyone (many of whom went to lectures at Cloud Recesses), including LWJ's own clan, who understand perfectly what it meant that WWX did that? Mortifying. And then his own clan reassures him that "it doesn't count" because WWX is a man, which must have been really invalidating to LWJ in its own way. So any progress on the friendship front/ideas of softening his guard on LWJ's part is gone. Toast.

And then his home has been burnt to the ground, his brother in hiding, and his leg broken. It's no surprise he's going to spurn WWX at indoctrination. He's grieving, stressed out more than he's ever been, in so much pain. LWJ probably feels really overwhelmed, overstimulated, and unsafe. He just cannot deal with All the Emotions About Wei Wuxian on top of that, and how would he even begin to tell WWX what had happened? He'd prefer to just avoid, avoid, avoid. (In the cdrama, I think he's also trying to distance himself so WWX won't draw the attention of WC.) And when WWX flirts with Mianmian, LWJ has had it up to here. He has no idea WWX is just trying to get medicine for him. And when WWX wants to carry him, the last thing LWJ probably wants is to be vulnerable with wwx in this very unsafe situation, where the Wens are constantly looking for weakness. So he brushes him off.

Then in the cave, LWJ is one of the first (along with JZX to resist the Wens and protect Mianmian. And then he stays behind with WWX and pushes him out of the way of the Xuanwu to get bitten instead. That speaks volumes about his character.

And then there's the whole debacle where LWJ is furious about the branding scar. I know he's of course jealous about the whole Mianmian thing, and WWX trying to lighten the mood/distract LWJ the way he distracts the Jiang siblings by going on about being a dashing hero protecting a maiden, but that just pisses LWJ off more, and I believe it's because LWJ is mad that WWX is treating the matter so lightly, because to him, love and devotion and self-sacrifically pushing people out of the way of danger is so powerful it feels like he's drowning, and WWX is over here like "haha she'll always remember me isn't that nice" and "it doesn't matter that i got hurt because it would have hurt her worse bc of beauty/reputation/the consequences of a woman losing her beauty" (which, kudos to WWX for understanding the ways women are affected by patriarchy, and beauty as a form of power/a tool for a future)

But LWJ is over here, viciously reminded he's not special and WWX would help and flirt with anyone and (seemingly) not think twice about it. Another thought process he could be having could be: but you got hurt. and that is unacceptable, and I hate that you're trying to say it like it is acceptable, bc it's like you don't care, and I care so much it feels like it could kill me. (I'm extrapolating a bit about this thought process here, but it seems plausible enough to me)

And then there's the whole thing where earlier WWX had made LWJ gay-panic hard enough to spit up blood, and then promptly reassured him he doesn't like guys. LWJ didn't need this on top of all the stress, and WWX just took off his headband to make a splint again, and so its presence isn't there to press him into restraint, and now the Mianmian thing, all the stress and adrenaline just come crashing down and bro just can't take it anymore and bites WWX bc maybe he he's mad that WWX has made the impact of a meteor strike in his life and it seems like WWX doesn't take more than a passing thought to those he impacts so deeply. So in all his deep and torrential emotions, bro is just like "I'll make you remember, even just a little bit, the way I remember you." I think in any other circumstance, LWJ wouldn't have lashed out in this way. It took so much for him to reach this point. Should he have bitten WWX? No. Do I understand why he did? Yeah.

And then LWJ tells WWX about Cloud Recesses and cries, for obvious reasons.

And so to call his behavior "abuse" towards WWX at any point in this timeline makes literally no sense at all (though unfortunately that was what the comment called it), and it tore me up to think about it. This is a very long post, and I have a lot to say about LWJ's actions during and post sunshot, but I'm tired so I'll just leave this here. Feel free to share your insights and what you love about LWJ's character. Also, if you have fic recs for favorite LWJ characterizations, please share! I'd love to read them.

TL;DR - Lwj's behavior and treatment of WWX pre-sunshot makes sense in context of his pov. He's flawed, but that's what makes him such a great character, and I love him for good reason.

[cryinhell]

No one asked, but here's my updated top ten hellaverse ships (both canon and not)

10) Stella x Striker

What can I say? I love an evil couple. I think these two look pretty hot together, and it's interesting how Striker seems to respect Stella despite hating blue bloods. These two aren't canon, but I wouldn't mind if they were

9) RadioRose

Despite having mixed feelings on Alastor, I think these two are just so cute. Either as a couple or just queer platonic partners, I don't care. Rosie seems to be the only person to make Alastor genuinely smile, and she's the only one who can touch him. There's a special bond there I really like

8) Verosika Mayday x Wally Wackford

So this is the biggest crack ship on this list, but I think in theory, it's so cute. I really want Verosika to be happy, and Wally, despite being a bit of a scammer, is really sweet. I'm totally cool with Verosika ending up with Barbie as well, but I slightly prefer Wally. I wonder if they will have more interactions in future episodes.

7) Fizzmodeus

Is this controversial? Probably. I know Fizzarolli and Asmodeus are so loved in this fandom, so putting them at number 7 is awful...but they aren't my favorite. I do like them, and I think they're really cute! I just have ships I like more, but that doesn't take away how sweet these two can be. Sometimes obnoxiously sweet heh. So yeah, no disrespect to these two

6) M&M

So these two were at first kinda meh for me, but over time, I've grown to love them. They have a pretty healthy relationship, and I always hate when someone bothers Millie for marrying Moxxie or saying Moxxie isn't a good enough husband. These two clearly love and respect each other and clearly grow together with every episode.

5) Staticmoth

Like I said, I love an evil couple. Valentino is a monster, and Vox is deplorable. That doesn't stop me from loving them as a couple and thinking they are cute. I think they both should die, but also would be sad cause come on, they're cute together.

4) Cherrisnake

I love Sir Pentious, I love Cherri Bomb, so obviously, them together is a fun pair. I shipped these two before the show came out and was so excited to see Pen having a crush on Cherri. They kinda remind me of the early versions of M&M, but they need a lot more time. Cherri isn't ready to accept love, and Sir Pentious is well...in a different world. I can't wait to see these two develop and become an actual couple.

3) Adamsapple

So this and Lucilith could be here. Lucifer being happy is the main objective, and its Adamsapple is so fun. They clearly have a history, and there's a lot of feelings. If Adam comes back in season 2, I'd love to see this be fleshed out. I doubt they'd be a couple, but maybe friends? Who knows. I'm fine with this one not being canon, and just something fun in the fandom

2) Stolitz

Stoltiz is pretty important to me because it really got me involved in the fandom. I've been watching Helluva Boss since the beginning, but episode one of season two had me from casual watcher to actual fan. Blitzø is one of the characters I really relate to, and Stolas is just a really well written character. I love the development of these two and they are worth waiting for. I really gotta draw some fanart of them because they are everything

1) Huskerdust

Are you surprised? You must be new. These two are my everything and all time otp in the Hellaverse. I've talked so much about why I love them, and I will continue to do so until I can't any longer. Angel and Husk are not only my favorite characters individually, but their growing friendship and eventual relationship are just so ughhhh. I love these losers, and they will always be number one.

Thanks for reading my nonsense

Have a good one 💜💜

[bibliophilicstranger]

I investigated the TV trope page and noted something you may have missed: there are numerous examples of the same trope far predating the Harry Potter series. The idea of turning a good character bad for one reason or another, including for shipping, is not a new one. It wasn't started by Harmony fans. Someone could easily have named the same trope The Roman's Odysseus, Zeus the Rapist, or Raoul the Alcoholic. The trope may have been used by Harmony fans, and the existence of those fics may have given the name to the trope, but frankly that says more about the media preferences of the people writing the article. If I had to guess, it was created during the heyday of Harry Potter, as that coincides with when TV Tropes was getting popular (there are approximately 24 pages with Harry Potter-related titles, three of which, including "Ron the Death Eater," are fanon terms). Based on the current Trope-naming guidelines, were the same page created today it might well not mention a character at all but be named "Good Guys Go Bad."

I'm going to have to ask you to provide some kind of credible article on Harmony shippers sending death threats as unfortunately Rowling gets so many of them that my searches are turning up more recent events. Were that to be true it would be unfortunate. Disappointment is warranted, and the expression of that disappointment is allowed, but one should not send death threats, especially not over this.

I can't comment on "classist body shaming and look shaming comments" as I've never seen those particular attacks made. Unless you're referring to the bit from canon where he's got dirt on his nose? Ron is canonically tall and thin-- who on earth is body shaming him for that? And in comparison to whom? Harry is also skinny, with knobby knees.

Attacking Harmony shippers for their reading comprehension is another ad hominem attack and I must request that you desist on that front. For one, it's inaccurate to say that someone who ships Harmony lacks reading comprehension. Reading comprehension is simply the ability to read a text, process it, and understand its meaning. Two people can have equally good reading comprehension but reach a different understanding of the text by focusing on different aspects or bringing different theories to bear.

You seem to adhere to the opposites-attract, pigtail-pulling-is-cute, antagonistic-bickering-is-a-sign-of-attraction school. I concede that is a common enough trope of its own. You focus on the expressions of jealousy toward other romantic interests, the virulence of their squabbles and the explicit details provided. The very things you seem to favor, the "love-hate relationship" are the same things which concern Harmony fans, who worry that such a relationship would ultimately be unhealthy and devolve into domestic violence. If the 'hate' part of love-hate got significantly better over time, then it wouldn't be as much of an issue, but as late as book six Hermione has escalated from trading insults with Ron to sending birds to attack him. In book seven, when Ron returns Hermione punches him, yells at him, and wants her wand to curse him. We don't see them practicing a lot of healthy conflict resolution-- Hermione rightfully bears a grudge that doesn't seem to be resolved until after they visit the Lovegoods, and we don't see them have a discussion where they talk it out as much as they just go through another particularly dangerous event and it makes them ignore and forget any previous conflict-- just like books one and three. Once they're no longer fighting trolls, death eaters, and Voldemort, can Hermione and Ron actually resolve their disagreements?

In contrast, I, and many other Harmony fans, look for exchanges of support and comfort, understanding one another, prioritizing one another. I look at details such as Hermione's words to Harry in the Potions Challenge in book one, her bringing him toast the morning after the Triwizard champions are selected in book four, and his trust in her and prioritization of her desires in book five. There are also the details in book six of Harry comforting Hermione and talking her up to Slughorn and her comforting him in book seven when they visit the Potters' grave or when they learn about Dumbledore. There are a variety of times where they display compatibility by knowing what one another is thinking, or how they're likely to act. While Harry and Hermione do argue, they still treat each other with respect and even while at odds Harry usually acknowledges that Hermione's position is well-meaning. There are other examples where he expresses anger around her, but acknowledges he's not angry at her, but the situation or other people.

Before the explicit introduction of romance in book six, there were only hints in either direction. Even after book six, there was a chance that any romance or attraction wouldn't last. There are many couples who make it through all of high school only to break up as they get older. A first attraction between Ron and Hermione could have flared and burnt out, and Harry and Hermione could have gotten together in the end. Neither Harry's attraction to Cho nor Ron's to Lavender lasted, after all.

Now for the Ginny "fanfic" you mentioned. Are you talking about the forum post of that name from twenty years ago? The one that's not a fanfic, but a conception of ways that Ginny could be removed in book seven? That only actually has only 196 ways? I'll grant you they're not the most tasteful, but this has been done for many characters over the years, including Hermione, Draco, and Edward Cullen.

I'd disagree about who the most toxic people in the fandom are. You yourself reblogged a post acknowledging the toxicity of the Romione fans. In addition to having seen numerous attacks on Harmony fans by Romione fans (including yourself), I've often seen incredibly toxic behavior from Marauders era fans (ex: 1 2 3), especially the ones who ignore most of canon. I think there has been a decent amount of hatred towards Tonks and Remadora (ex: 1, 2, 3) but it's also easy for most Wolfstar shippers to ignore her existence, considering most Wolfstar occurs before the Remadora relationship is even remotely possible. I can't be bothered to expose myself to HarryxDeathEater ships to find examples of them being abusive to Ginny-- I have most of those tags blocked-- but I'm fairly certain Drarry fans have engaged in just as much Ginny bashing and the use of that love-potion trope you don't like.

Accusing someone of "playing the victim card" is a common form of gaslighting and I suggest you remove it from your vocabulary before your erroneous use causes harm. You're also applying it in a situation where it's false. To play the victim card, one must be fabricating or exaggerating victimhood. To see two asks where someone called me a bitch, look here and here. I've deleted others. Here's an out of the blue attack on Lily and here and here are some against Hermione. In your above response you validated what I said about attacks on reading comprehension, but here's another example. And here's the call for negativity against Harmony shippers. As you can see, these are neither fabrications, nor exaggerations and therefore your accusation is false.

Further, you would really rather preach that all Harmony shippers should accept being victims of cruelty, simply because some may have engaged in negative behavior in the past (and a past that in some cases is twenty years and a whole generation of fans ago)? That seems a rather slippery slope, don't you think? It's thinking like that which has synagogues in Canada and Australia firebombed, when those with particular views on Israel/Palestine attack all Jews over their disagreement with the Israeli government, even when those Jews have no say in what the Israeli government does. It's one thing to disagree with a particular person holding views you don't like, it's another to call for an attack on all shippers. Such an attitude only perpetuates toxicity in fandom.

Defend your ship if you like, but if you want a less toxic fandom, constrain yourself to arguing over the text. After all, don't you want to sow positivity for yourself, lest you dislike what you reap?

There is one thing in common with the PeterMJ (Spider-Man/Marvel) and Romione (Harry Potter) shippers; both of their pairings are 'canon' and have everything going for them thanks to favoritism by the author (J.K. Rowling)/ comic writers (Marvel). Despite all that, these

'canon' shippers aren't satisfied with having an already huge following and seek/continue to tear down on other ships (Harmione & PeterGwen) just to push their pairings to front and center. People like these are why we hate fandoms.

I can't comment on the Marvel portion of this ask as my knowledge of that universe is limited in scope and I'm not an active member of its fandom.

As for the Harry Potter part...

I think Romione fans have the issue that while their pairing is canon, it's not well developed in the text (very few pairings in Harry Potter are). We're told that they get together, marry, and have children, yet we don't actually see a lot of development of the relationship blocks that would support the longevity of their marriage. Yes, they went through the war together (although Ron abandoned them for a good portion of that) and yes they were friends, but their friendship was highly contentious and they spent significant portions of each year not speaking to one another or not hanging out (first year before they were friends, second year when she was petrified, most of third year, part of fourth where Hermione was more with Harry, part of sixth year, and part of seventh). Now, technically, first and second year don't count, but honestly, the only year they spend the entirety of together where they don't have a major fight is their fifth year. We know they like each other from Hermione's actions in book six and Ron's in seven, but we don't really see why they do, why that would turn into love rather than a teenage crush, or why they'd make it as adults.

Supposedly Hermione likes Ron because he's funny. Supposedly Hermione's maturity makes up for Ron's lack and he gets her to open up. While there's something to her liking someone who can lighten things up, if that's all then she could just as easily have liked one of the Weasley Twins instead. As a Hermione-type myself, I've often liked guys who were funny, but them being funny isn't enough. The guy I dated when I was 17 was funny, but he also lacked drive and dedication and in the end that made us incompatible in the long-run. Yeah, it's nice to have friends that can make you laugh, but in a partner for life you want someone you don't have to nag all the time when you need them to do something.

We also know that JKR admitted that Romione was her personal wish-fulfilment, clinging to her original idea of the plot, whatever that was, rather than a natural outcome of what she actually wrote. She also said they'd have needed counseling and their relationship was further questioned in the Cursed Child.

This puts Romione shippers on a weaker footing than most canon-pair shippers in other fandoms, making them defensive. Yes, they have the benefit of canon, but not the textual support, other than 'well, our people got married.' They can be threatened by Harmony supporters, who have fairly well crafted arguments grounded in the text for why Harry and Hermione make sense as a pairing. This makes Harmony a greater threat than pairings which are more loosely grounded in the books: Dramione, for instance, is never going to happen in a close-to-canon universe, but it takes very few tweaks to make Harmony work. Additionally, many of the arguments used in favor of Romione are equally as powerful for Harmony, such as the length of their friendship. Indeed, many of the arguments regarding Hermione's feelings for Harry specifically are a lot stronger, because we do see instances where she chooses Harry over Ron, such as in the seventh book.

It is unfortunate that these tend to become rather nasty fights that devolve into personal attacks on the sanity, demeanor, or reading comprehension of the Harmony shipper. I've seen many people go after another Harmony shipper on here pretty nastily, and I've heard tiktok and instagram are worse. Some screenshots I've seen are basically Romione shippers vowing to spread negativity about Harmony just because they don't like some of the fanfic people have written. As if it weren't possible to just, you know, not read the fanfic you don't like.

It would be nice not to get people randomly calling me a bitch in my inbox, but you know, such is life. I don't know if they dislike me more for shipping Harmony or Jily at this point but I really don't care.

[rystiel]

toxic yaoi (cherik)

toxic yaoi (scogan)

healthy toxic yaoi (poolverine)

healthy yuri (yukionic)

[arttsuka]

Some past fiddlestan? (Like Ford just went through the portal. He gone now. Past. Yk?)

The mystery misery yaoi

[marysblo0d]

Every time I see a Daemyra stan posting about how the portrayal of Daemon is unfair because he’s supposed to be the best husband in the world:

[silna-pdf]

Wesker comforting his baby Alvina, what’s that quote? There is Nothing more undoing than a daughter? Yeah..

@feng-shui71

+ plus some silly Jordan…

Now perma etched into my fave sketchbook rn

[housewifebuck]

Natalia literally met Buck while he was on duty and he dressed a wound for her and everything and then she says “shouldn’t we leave that to the professionals” like two episodes later and he has the nerve to think THIS is the person that Sees Him. Sorry but Eddie is so brave and strong for not going ballistic in that graveyard personally I would have just started swinging

[jebiknights]

Sometimes I just remember that oh right it's apparently a slightly controversial opinion that I think if Palpatine hadn't been involved at all that Anakin could've been perfectly happy and fulfilled with the Jedi.

Like just from rots we see Anakin want to follow Jedi ideals, to seek advice and even help from the very Jedi that fandom loves to act like he hates and who hate him in return, and we see the Jedi around him actually have a lot of respect for him! But every time he makes progress Palpatine is whispering in his ear and pulling out the stitches and re-opening the wounds, making it near impossible for him to actually grow as a Jedi and instead he grows closer to Falling. Not to mention the war, which was orchestrated in part to actively challenge the Jedi's morals and make them make bad and questionable choices.

Plenty of Legends canon and even current canon in things like the marvel comics show Anakin actively wrestling and considering Jedi philosophy, the pros and cons, and working through all his trauma and trying to figure out what's right for him and what the Jedi code actually means. People act like he only ever does lightsaber training and that he never picked up a book in his entire padawanship (which not only is just not how the Jedi Order works from what we see but honestly is just a boring take on the character imo).

Like, I just don't think that Anakin is actually incompatible with the Jedi Order! I think he could've thrived there if he wasn't being actively sabotaged and also had more time.

[realredbanana]

Every time I remember that canon!Will Solace kinda sucks if you think about it for too long, I feel like crying. Idk. Like, what do you mean my beloved boy whom I love dearly actually kinda sucks, but the narrative ignores it and pretends like everything he does is Totally Fine??/hj

(Not saying all fanon!Will is great! He’s sometimes not.)

[oregano-gremlin]

wrote out a whole long ass yap post about the epilogues/hs2 but i think instead im just gonna say this: some of the criticisms i see of them make me wonder how the people who say them enjoyed original homestuck.

[beanghostprincess]

i know i did not just lose a mutual over lawlu bc they said it was problematic. as if luffy, a 19 y/o, didn't have enough critical thinking to do whatever the fuck he wants.